Curse

fireflyry · Sep 25, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

My only real concern regarding these title benefits being a HM only option would be for those that have spent a lot of time in HM grinding titles to suddenly be at a disadvantage or for it to "cheapen" the time they spent getting them originally without such aid.

In saying that goes for even more titles if it was also an option in normal mode.

I don't grind titles so maybe they would'nt give a hoot but I'm sure if Anet suddenly slashed the price of FoW by a third some people would'nt be too happy about it.

draxynnic · Sep 26, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

It would still be Hard Mode, you just have a buffer that allows you to die a couple of seconds later and able to cast a couple of more spells before hitting 0 energy.

Or you could not die because the healing arrives in those couple of seconds or because those extra couple of spells allow you to take the enemy out before they do you. *sigh*

And, if Norn and Asura titles were ever available simultaneously, they would be essentially granting both bonuses. Consider that "aura flashing" was a major part of paladin strategy in Diablo 2 for the more fanatical players. Can you really say that this wouldn't lead to some people playing with their title window open and switching titles according to whether they needed health or energy more at a particular time?

trobinson97 · Sep 26, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Or you could not die because the healing arrives in those couple of seconds or because those extra couple of spells allow you to take the enemy out before they do you. *sigh*

I'm not understanding the purpose of the *sigh*. If the healing arrives in those couple of seconds or because of those couple spells and saves my char from dying, sweet. I certainly would rather live than die. You don't have to utterly fail in order to have a challenge. My character doesn't have to die in order to be tested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

And, if Norn and Asura titles were ever available simultaneously, they would be essentially granting both bonuses. Consider that "aura flashing" was a major part of paladin strategy in Diablo 2 for the more fanatical players. Can you really say that this wouldn't lead to some people playing with their title window open and switching titles according to whether they needed health or energy more at a particular time?

I've never played Diablo 2. As for switching between titles, eh, I do that now, whenever possible. For example, fighting the destroyers in Asuran Territory. I haven't seen anything gamebreaking there, nor anything that would concern another player who wasn't in my group. It's an option. I didn't have to do it, but I could choose to do it if I'd like. I also used to switch between Lightbringer and Treasure Hunter in those days when I thought having your Treasure Hunter or Lucky title selected made a difference when opening a chest lol. So no, I can't say that it wouldn't lead to people playing with their title window open and switching titles according to whether they needed health or energy more at a particular time. I can say however, that I really don't care how other people choose to play their game.

freekedoutfish · Sep 26, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Or you could not die because the healing arrives in those couple of seconds or because those extra couple of spells allow you to take the enemy out before they do you. *sigh*

And, if Norn and Asura titles were ever available simultaneously, they would be essentially granting both bonuses. Consider that "aura flashing" was a major part of paladin strategy in Diablo 2 for the more fanatical players. Can you really say that this wouldn't lead to some people playing with their title window open and switching titles according to whether they needed health or energy more at a particular time?

That's what already happens! Thats the entire point of those two status effects. Are you saying you dont switch between the two in GWEN already?

What point were you trying to make there?

As for the "you could not die..." bit! You could also die too, even with that extra 100 health. Its all relative and it all depends on the player, and the activity their doing.

Obviously if you used that 100 extra health in a NM, easy mission, its going to be a doddly. But it would be easy anyway!

But if you used it when vanquishing, or doing a really hard HM missions, it might not help at all.

But the entire point of adding making the status effects game wide is to add that slight edge if you choose to use it. So why is it a bad thing if it keeps you alive a few second longer? Thats its purpose!

This is the point im getting at.

The entire point of the Norn and Asuran status effects are to give you an edge in those areas. But when/why do we actually need them in those territories? You can very easily move through both locations without equipping them.

I hardly use them myself at times, and it makes no difference!

The result being that those status effects are wasted in the territories their only allowed to be used in. So why have them?

Let them be of some use in either other GWEN areas or the entire game!

draxynnic · Sep 26, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

I'm not understanding the purpose of the *sigh*. If the healing arrives in those couple of seconds or because of those couple spells and saves my char from dying, sweet. I certainly would rather live than die. You don't have to utterly fail in order to have a challenge. My character doesn't have to die in order to be tested.

Because I've pointed that out multiple times, and people STILL keep claiming that additional hit points don't make any difference. Because apparently if you're going to die, you're going to die apparently regardless of how much health you started with... *rolls eyes*

Quote:

I've never played Diablo 2. As for switching between titles, eh, I do that now, whenever possible. For example, fighting the destroyers in Asuran Territory. I haven't seen anything gamebreaking there, nor anything that would concern another player who wasn't in my group. It's an option. I didn't have to do it, but I could choose to do it if I'd like. I also used to switch between Lightbringer and Treasure Hunter in those days when I thought having your Treasure Hunter or Lucky title selected made a difference when opening a chest lol. So no, I can't say that it wouldn't lead to people playing with their title window open and switching titles according to whether they needed health or energy more at a particular time. I can say however, that I really don't care how other people choose to play their game.

The example is one that shows where something that appears to be silly at first glance becomes an important strategy.

At the moment, title-switching is pretty much only useful for specific quests, because the times where multiple title benefits are available are rare (basically, those quests that involve fighting Destroyers above ground). There aren't really enough opportunities for it to become a major strategy.

If you made Norn and Asura titles generally applicable, though, I will guarantee people will do it. Run low on energy while you have Norn up? Switch to Asura, and fire away. Start running low on health when you have Asura up? Switch to Norn for that extra chance to get away.

Let's keep the skill required to play the game based on playing the game, not how good a player is at manipulating titles or how patient they are at grinding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

That's what already happens! Thats the entire point of those two status effects. Are you saying you dont switch between the two in GWEN already?

Ummm... not in that manner, no. Because currently you only have one working in any particular area, so the only such title-switching between the two is when you transition from Varajar to Verdant Cascades. I'm talking about people switching title in the middle of a fight according to whether they need health or energy more.

trobinson97 · Sep 26, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Because I've pointed that out multiple times, and people STILL keep claiming that additional hit points don't make any difference. Because apparently if you're going to die, you're going to die apparently regardless of how much health you started with... *rolls eyes*

Ah, you're upset that no one seems to realize how "right" you are and that frustrates you. Got it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The example is one that shows where something that appears to be silly at first glance becomes an important strategy.

At the moment, title-switching is pretty much only useful for specific quests, because the times where multiple title benefits are available are rare (basically, those quests that involve fighting Destroyers above ground). There aren't really enough opportunities for it to become a major strategy.

If you made Norn and Asura titles generally applicable, though, I will guarantee people will do it. Run low on energy while you have Norn up? Switch to Asura, and fire away. Start running low on health when you have Asura up? Switch to Norn for that extra chance to get away.

Let's keep the skill required to play the game based on playing the game, not how good a player is at manipulating titles or how patient they are at grinding.

And it all comes back to this. Why is it so important that you dictate how other people play? People switching between the title while fighting doesn't affect you in the slightest does it? Why is it so bad for people to have the option should Anet choose to implement the idea? Does it degrade you as a player? Does it make you feel less skilled in the fine art of PvE? I really don't understand your mode of thinking. Well, that's a lie. I understand it, I just don't agree with it. Why is what I do in my own instance any concern of yours?

freekedoutfish · Sep 26, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Ummm... not in that manner, no. Because currently you only have one working in any particular area, so the only such title-switching between the two is when you transition from Varajar to Verdant Cascades. I'm talking about people switching title in the middle of a fight according to whether they need health or energy more.

I can switch between an extra 90+ health and extra armor against the char in Vanguard areas in the middle of fights already!

Whats the difference?

Just because im switching between 90 health -> extra armor, is no different to switching between 90 health -> extra energy.

Just as you can switch between extra health or energy -> extra damage!

Your scenario already exists, so how can you suggest its going to give some unfair advantage. It doesnt give me any staggering advantage when I do that in GWEN.

Its just nice to have the option. And as the other poster above said, why/how does it effect you if some completely random player wants to move between extra health or energy mid quest, mission or dungeon?

Even if their in your team, surely that will just benefit you! I cant see a negative side to it, other then you'd be jealous because you mighy not have the same rank as them.

Mordakai · Sep 26, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Crom has already firmly hit the nail on the head (once again, I'll add. He's damn good). It'll cause less incentive to continue grinding for the other titles. You could just level up your Norn title and boo-bam. Why grind for the others when you already have +100 health?

Eh? Why do we grind for anything at all? surely, it's not the stupid bonuses...

Bryant Again · Sep 26, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Eh? Why do we grind for anything at all? surely, it's not the stupid bonuses...

If these bonuses were "stupid", this thread would've died at page 1.(Unless that was sarcasm? You can never tell on these forums, you know that.)

What Crom stated was that if you could use these titles anywhere in the game, a person could see "Oh, well I could just up this Norn title and have +100 hp where ever I go, and I won't have to farm for any of the other titles because I already have a high rank in Norn!"

That's pretty much the basis of it. ANet for some reason wants to keep us occupied for a while, and this is just one of those speed bumps they want us to have to go over.

Glad to see this moved, btw.

Mordakai · Sep 26, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

If these bonuses were "stupid", this thread would've died at page 1.(Unless that was sarcasm? You can never tell on these forums, you know that.)

What Crom stated was that if you could use these titles anywhere in the game, a person could see "Oh, well I could just up this Norn title and have +100 hp where ever I go, and I won't have to farm for any of the other titles because I already have a high rank in Norn!"

That's pretty much the basis of it. ANet for some reason wants to keep us occupied for a while, and this is just one of those speed bumps they want us to have to go over.

Glad to see this moved, btw.

it was sort of sarcasm, sort of not.

I think we all agree on the fact these bonuses would not be required to beat anything. Would it be nice to have +100 HP? Sure. It'd be even nicer to have a skill that gave +100 armor to my allies, but I'm not about to grind 103,000 faction to get it.

My point is, to me, the whole discussion is rather silly. People will max out titles to max out titles, not just to get +100 HPs. The idea that somehow people will stop grinding just because they have 100 extra HPs is silly. And who cares if they don't get any more titles? Why do you care?

I just think it's a good suggestion to make Asuran and Norn titles more useful (like Vanguard currently is). I see no logical reason not to do it... some people argue it would increase grind. (Nope. The +100 armor skill didn't incite me to farm faction, and neither will +100 HPs),

Now you're arguing this will decrease farming for other titles? And you think this is a bad thing... because?

I hate farming. I won't do it. I dont care if they double the Norn bonus and carry it over to all your other characters to boot. But that doesn't change the fact the OP has a great point:

Why not? And, to a larger point, why is everything in PvE done so arbitrarily? This skill will give you +100 armor, but this Title will give you extra HP in Norn areas only...

Honestly, I wish Anet didn't have all this crap to begin with. It just makes no sense, and Guild Wars was more fun (IMO), before it. I'll second another guy who says that this is all a clever ploy to make us want infinite levels in GW2 instead. I agree. I'd much rather have true leveling, than this pseudo-leveling "Title Tracks" we have now... it'd be easier just to play the game and level up, than to decide what skills you want and grind for those skills....

But I'm just ranting now, sorry. So, yeah, a bit sarcastic because I see this whole discussion as fundamentally silly, because the state of PvE currently makes no sense anyway... why not just have random bonuses just appear as you adventure? Are we forgetting the point of playing the game to begin with? To have fun?

Bryant Again · Sep 26, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Now you're arguing this will decrease farming for other titles? And you think this is a bad thing... because?

Because it'll keep us playing less, plain and simple.

Many things in GWEN require quite a bit of work: titles, armors, weapons, merchants, a lot. Why do we have to grind for these things in the first place? Wouldn't it just make us all happy to be able to just go up to the armorcrafter and make us a set, to be able to just have a title already maxed, to have skills be at their highest level of efficency? Yeup, it sure would, but instead there's all this *grind* in the way (at least for a bit. You can still have some good fun in the dungeons until they get old), because, for some reason, ANet wants us on their game.

So in summation, ANet wants us hooked (no clue why), and it seems like they'll do any little thing to do so.

freekedoutfish · Sep 26, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Because it'll keep us playing less, plain and simple.

Many things in GWEN require quite a bit of work: titles, armors, weapons, merchants, a lot. Why do we have to grind for these things in the first place? Wouldn't it just make us all happy to be able to just go up to the armorcrafter and make us a set, to be able to just have a title already maxed, to have skills be at their highest level of efficency? Yeup, it sure would, but instead there's all this *grind* in the way (at least for a bit. You can still have some good fun in the dungeons until they get old), because, for some reason, ANet wants us on their game.

So in summation, ANet wants us hooked (no clue why), and it seems like they'll do any little thing to do so.

We already have a huge selection of max armors (elite and normal), maxed weapons (green and gold) to choose from.

We already have hundreds of skills (elite and normal) to use!

You talk like people are entering GWEN and being completely disadvantaged and are completely unable to play the game ecause of this. WHich just isnt true! You enter GWEN presumably with a wide selection of max gear already!

The new armor, weapons and skills which are connected to titles in GWEN arent necessities.

So what is the harm in making us work a tiny bit harder to get the GWEN armor and weapons? I had rank 5 on all 4 within 2 weeks!

What is the harm in connected PvE only skills to titles? No one is forcing you to use them, and no is forcing you to grind those titles. Its your choice if you want to max them out.

They dont add anything hugely amazing!

Most of the pve only skills are also quite powerfull even at low ranks. As are the status effects!

Yes it would be nice get the armor without ranks, yes it would be nice if the status effects and skills were maxed without needing ranks. But what huge impact does it have?

Does it really detract from the fun of the game?

Lets assume you got your armor and weapons without needing rank 5. Lets assume all the pve only skills were maxed out on unlocking! What would keep you around? I know id have got bored already and stopped playing!

Bryant Again · Sep 26, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You talk like people are entering GWEN and being completely disadvantaged and are completely unable to play the game ecause of this.

No? What I'm talking about is ANet adding in all these timesinks. I in no way mentioned players being at a disadvantage and such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

The new armor, weapons and skills which are connected to titles in GWEN arent necessities.

So? That's not my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

So what is the harm in making us work a tiny bit harder to get the GWEN armor and weapons?

What's the reason for having to do so?

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Lets assume you got your armor and weapons without needing rank 5. Lets assume all the pve only skills were maxed out on unlocking! What would keep you around?

Dungeons. And why do I need to stick around, anyways? Why do I need to keep playing the game? It's not like I'm paying to play, I already paid the fee to play their game.

freekedoutfish · Sep 26, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

So? That's not my point.

Well if these armors, weapons and skills arent necessities then whats is the harm in making us increase some ranks to get them.

Rank 5 is easy to make, and bounty hunting easily gets your to rank 8 in just a couple of weeks.

Im on rank 8 drawf and Norn, and rank 6 Vanguard and 5 Asura. That is after just a few weeks of playing the game!

Yes anything over rank 5 has required grind (meaning earning points outside of quests and dungeons). But I chose to increase those ranks. I didnt feel it was important or necessary. I just wanted to do it.

I can understand the frustration of needing rank 5 for armor, but that (as I said) is easy to get on all. Most pve only skills are powerfull at rank 5, and the status effects are quite effective at rank 5.

I just personally dont understand the anxiety against increasing ranks past level 5, because its not required or critical.

I agree grind isnt an ideal way to keep us interested in the game, but its all optional. If you choose not to grind anything and stop playing, that is your choice too. Im tempted to go back to playing WoW again.. because im getting bored myself too.

All ive done for 2 weeks now is increase ranks and buy destroyer cores! I cant say its exciting, but it keeps me busy. Id much rather be in the student union drinking myself stupid, but no one will join me.

Plus ive got halo 3 in the mail from play.com and Guitar hero 3 out soon and new songs for guitar hero 2 on my machine now. Chances are ill get bored soon and move on until GW2!

Although ill be 27 by then... and probably have somet better to do!

My point in a nutshell is none of this is forced on you, and if you want to grind, then grind. If not then dont. Chances are you have 15k armor already and a green weapon etc etc. Do you desperately need a new set right away?

But the subject is about the status effects. The short of that in my view, is let people use them in the entire game if they choose. If you dont want to, then dont. It only impacts that individual in pve.

draxynnic · Sep 27, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Honestly, I wish Anet didn't have all this crap to begin with. It just makes no sense, and Guild Wars was more fun (IMO), before it. I'll second another guy who says that this is all a clever ploy to make us want infinite levels in GW2 instead. I agree. I'd much rather have true leveling, than this pseudo-leveling "Title Tracks" we have now... it'd be easier just to play the game and level up, than to decide what skills you want and grind for those skills....

That was me, by the way.

As long as the titles remain in their respective area, they're relatively benign (more so than Lightbringer, anyway) - the title pretty much helps you to get the title without impacting too much on the rest of the game (I'd prefer that skills weren't attached to titles either, but that horse has already bolted). Make it universal, and suddenly the pseudo-levelling becomes an issue in the rest of the game - and because there's only one way to pseudo-level past a particular point, it's essentially be telling you how to play the game. Sorry, but elite missions, completing quests in other areas, and anything else you may wish to do doesn't count... the only way to advance your pseudo-level is to grind the areas we tell you to!

At least it seems that we've agreed that the title benefits don't make a difference, and moved on to whether person X's title affects person Y. In this, all the people requesting for the titles have been claiming that they aren't elitist, they wouldn't demand that a player have title rank X to join their groups.

Fair enough. We all know that such elitist players do exist, but - from my experience, anyway - they're not in the majority, except possibly in the elite areas which I don't frequent very often. Even in Torment... people might ask that you at least be able to throw Lightbringer's Gaze around and that you make sure you're displaying Lightbringer, but apart from that most groups I've encountered are more concerned with profession balance and team build than how high your Lightbringer is.

But let's consider a hypothetical which has a few more shades of grey. You have a party of 7 looking at going into one of the harder missions, and the titles have been made generally applicable as you've requested. You have two people interested in joining. You don't know either from a bag of beans, and they have identical builds. The only difference, as far as you can tell, is that one has R10 in both titles (let's say this is after the introduction of Hard Mode so that R10 is possible), while the other only has R5.

Either way, someone is going to miss out and have to wait for another group to gather. Can you honestly say you wouldn't be just a teeny bit tempted to take the player with R10 in both instead of R5? I know I would.

trobinson97 · Sep 27, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

That was me, by the way.

As long as the titles remain in their respective area, they're relatively benign (more so than Lightbringer, anyway) - the title pretty much helps you to get the title without impacting too much on the rest of the game (I'd prefer that skills weren't attached to titles either, but that horse has already bolted). Make it universal, and suddenly the pseudo-levelling becomes an issue in the rest of the game - and because there's only one way to pseudo-level past a particular point, it's essentially be telling you how to play the game. Sorry, but elite missions, completing quests in other areas, and anything else you may wish to do doesn't count... the only way to advance your pseudo-level is to grind the areas we tell you to!

At least it seems that we've agreed that the title benefits don't make a difference, and moved on to whether person X's title affects person Y. In this, all the people requesting for the titles have been claiming that they aren't elitist, they wouldn't demand that a player have title rank X to join their groups.

Fair enough. We all know that such elitist players do exist, but - from my experience, anyway - they're not in the majority, except possibly in the elite areas which I don't frequent very often. Even in Torment... people might ask that you at least be able to throw Lightbringer's Gaze around and that you make sure you're displaying Lightbringer, but apart from that most groups I've encountered are more concerned with profession balance and team build than how high your Lightbringer is.

But let's consider a hypothetical which has a few more shades of grey. You have a party of 7 looking at going into one of the harder missions, and the titles have been made generally applicable as you've requested. You have two people interested in joining. You don't know either from a bag of beans, and they have identical builds. The only difference, as far as you can tell, is that one has R10 in both titles (let's say this is after the introduction of Hard Mode so that R10 is possible), while the other only has R5.

Either way, someone is going to miss out and have to wait for another group to gather. Can you honestly say you wouldn't be just a teeny bit tempted to take the player with R10 in both instead of R5? I know I would.

Sure I'd be tempted to take the person with R10 if it helps the party but so what? What's your point? Don't make the titles universal because of your little hypothetical situation there? Uh, not getting it.

draxynnic · Sep 27, 2007, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

Sure I'd be tempted to take the person with R10 if it helps the party but so what? What's your point? Don't make the titles universal because of your little hypothetical situation there? Uh, not getting it.

The point is that the person with R5 has just been negatively affected by the titles. It's an example of how, even without overt "must be this title to join" elitism, somebody who doesn't enjoy title grind can be put at a disadvantage in play compared to someone who enjoys (or at least tolerates) it.

freekedoutfish · Sep 27, 2007, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The point is that the person with R5 has just been negatively affected by the titles. It's an example of how, even without overt "must be this title to join" elitism, somebody who doesn't enjoy title grind can be put at a disadvantage in play compared to someone who enjoys (or at least tolerates) it.

So how does it benefit anyone if we allow the elitist players ingame, influence what we can or cant allow in the fear they take advantage of it.

Just because a small % of the GWs community are arrogant morons, who try to dictate what build to use, or force you to increase ranks to better suit them is no reason not to impliment an idea!

Otherwise we are allowing them to control us! Its like giving in to their control, and not chaning anything in fear they warp it.

So even though adding that extra 100+ health or +15 energy might make the game more fun for some players, we shouldnt go ahead with it, just because a small % of the game will twist it?

You could argue that if I stood in the TOA with legendary Guardian showing, id have more chance of entering a group then someone with protector of Tyria!

You could agrue that I have more chance of entering a PUG because I have VIP and It somehow makes me look better then a KOABD or a PKM!

You could agrue someone gets picked first because they have FOW armor, instea of the person with 1.5k max armor!

You could agrue that person with black armor, is accepted over the person with red armor because black is more expensive!

People in this game are fickel, and arrogant and will use any excuse to say "right, I want him over the other guy.. because.....[enter excuse]". It doesnt matter if they have rank10 Norn, FOW armor, LG or some other aspect that could be considered better then someone else.

Is that reason not to impliment these ideas? No!!!

Its like when teachers tried to ban playing conkers in the school playground, all because it concidered "danergious" after one kid in a thousand got a bruise on his finger!

Should we all stop driving, because a small % of drivers are idiots and crash and kill people?

I know those are moronic comparisons, but its the same principle. Just because a small % of the GWs community can warp and twist something, doesnt mean it should be implimented. The other 90% of the community will benefit.

If you come accross this eliteist attitude, you tell them to take a run and jump. You dont accept that behaviour and allow it to happen.

What will happen when you cant enter PUGs in elite zones unless you're carrying consumables? What will happen when people start forcing you to use PvE only skills in elite zones, which you might not have? What will happen when people start demanding other pathetic criteria just to satisfy their ego?

Do we just ban and remove anything and everything that these players mess up? No! You ignore them and play the game how you want!

draxynnic · Sep 27, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

So how does it benefit anyone if we allow the elitist players ingame, influence what we can or cant allow in the fear they take advantage of it.

Just because a small % of the GWs community are arrogant morons, who try to dictate what build to use, or force you to increase ranks to better suit them is no reason not to impliment an idea!

Otherwise we are allowing them to control us! Its like giving in to their control, and not chaning anything in fear they warp it.

So even though adding that extra 100+ health or +15 energy might make the game more fun for some players, we shouldnt go ahead with it, just because a small % of the game will twist it?

You could argue that if I stood in the TOA with legendary Guardian showing, id have more chance of entering a group then someone with protector of Tyria!

You could agrue that I have more chance of entering a PUG because I have VIP and It somehow makes me look better then a KOABD or a PKM!

You could agrue someone gets picked first because they have FOW armor, instea of the person with 1.5k max armor!

You could agrue that person with black armor, is accepted over the person with red armor because black is more expensive!

People in this game are fickel, and arrogant and will use any excuse to say "right, I want him over the other guy.. because.....[enter excuse]". It doesnt matter if they have rank10 Norn, FOW armor, LG or some other aspect that could be considered better then someone else.

Is that reason not to impliment these ideas? No!!!

Its like when teachers tried to ban playing conkers in the school playground, all because it concidered "danergious" after one kid in a thousand got a bruise on his finger!

Should we all stop driving, because a small % of drivers are idiots and crash and kill people?

I know those are moronic comparisons, but its the same principle. Just because a small % of the GWs community can warp and twist something, doesnt mean it should be implimented. The other 90% of the community will benefit.

If you come accross this eliteist attitude, you tell them to take a run and jump. You dont accept that behaviour and allow it to happen.

What will happen when you cant enter PUGs in elite zones unless you're carrying consumables? What will happen when people start forcing you to use PvE only skills in elite zones, which you might not have? What will happen when people start demanding other pathetic criteria just to satisfy their ego?

Do we just ban and remove anything and everything that these players mess up? No! You ignore them and play the game how you want!

I was just thinking "Strawman argument" when you essentially admitted it yourself.

draxynnic · Sep 27, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

So how does it benefit anyone if we allow the elitist players ingame, influence what we can or cant allow in the fear they take advantage of it.

Just because a small % of the GWs community are arrogant morons, who try to dictate what build to use, or force you to increase ranks to better suit them is no reason not to impliment an idea!

Otherwise we are allowing them to control us! Its like giving in to their control, and not chaning anything in fear they warp it.

So even though adding that extra 100+ health or +15 energy might make the game more fun for some players, we shouldnt go ahead with it, just because a small % of the game will twist it?

You could argue that if I stood in the TOA with legendary Guardian showing, id have more chance of entering a group then someone with protector of Tyria!

You could agrue that I have more chance of entering a PUG because I have VIP and It somehow makes me look better then a KOABD or a PKM!

You could agrue someone gets picked first because they have FOW armor, instea of the person with 1.5k max armor!

You could agrue that person with black armor, is accepted over the person with red armor because black is more expensive!

People in this game are fickel, and arrogant and will use any excuse to say "right, I want him over the other guy.. because.....[enter excuse]". It doesnt matter if they have rank10 Norn, FOW armor, LG or some other aspect that could be considered better then someone else.

Is that reason not to impliment these ideas? No!!!

Its like when teachers tried to ban playing conkers in the school playground, all because it concidered "danergious" after one kid in a thousand got a bruise on his finger!

Should we all stop driving, because a small % of drivers are idiots and crash and kill people?

I know those are moronic comparisons, but its the same principle. Just because a small % of the GWs community can warp and twist something, doesnt mean it should be implimented. The other 90% of the community will benefit.

If you come accross this eliteist attitude, you tell them to take a run and jump. You dont accept that behaviour and allow it to happen.

What will happen when you cant enter PUGs in elite zones unless you're carrying consumables? What will happen when people start forcing you to use PvE only skills in elite zones, which you might not have? What will happen when people start demanding other pathetic criteria just to satisfy their ego?

Do we just ban and remove anything and everything that these players mess up? No! You ignore them and play the game how you want!

I was just thinking "Strawman argument" when you seemed to essentially admit it yourself. I've already shown how it's not just the elitist players that might discriminate according to title, so I think saying it's only a potential problem due to elitism isn't really an applicable argument. Unless we're all elitists for wanting to have a better chance of being victorious... unless you're somehow immune to the desire to succeed?

There is one BIG difference between the other titles, armours, and so on and Norn etc. The rest give no mechanical advantage. If you have your way, Norn and Asura will. The others may act as an indicator of skill, but an active title gives a guarantee that the bearer will have an advantage they can bring to the table: They have extra hit points. Or extra energy. Or whatever. Taking someone with any other title or another form of 'prestige marker' is still at best a gamble of how honestly they earned it - taking someone with a Norn title over someone that doesn't, however, is equivalent to taking a character that is level 19 over level 20.

(I dare you to challenge that last sentence. Seriously, I dare you. If the forum had the capability, I could back it up with diagrams.)